On many sites that focus on expat life in the Philippines , especially forums, the tone is combative. Actually, its not true of just expat forums. While I was preparing to move to the Philippines, a preacher friend of mine suggested I find some Christian forums to participate in. I told him I really didn’t want to deal with those that wish to prove that they know more than everyone else.
Forums are the worse for that type of behavior. I was reading a forum last night. One guy told another guy “I don’t like you and
- Do I look Like I’m Suffering?
don’t want to be around you.” And the other guy said blah blah blah. I started to tread into it and ask them to get a room. :) They think the rest of us care? I’m there to read their rantings on how they are so much smarter than each other? That is the most extreme way in which this kind of thing happens.
Admittedly, I’m a bit argumentative. I try to catch myself but more time than not, I fail. Maybe I should make a background for my PC desktop. My two goals, “Do no harm” and “Be Agreeable When You Can.” Or maybe it should be as agreeable as you can.
A new expat is often the most likely to trash the Philippines in the process. Most come here not understanding the Philippines. Thinking it is far more corrupt than it is.
Oh there is corruption but it certainly not as widespread as some think. I read the other day about an expat getting busted for possession of marijuana. He offered a joint to the cop and said it is not illegal in my country. The press reports said he was from Norway. I didn’t know it was legal in Norway. Does anyone know?
I see on forums people saying you can buy your way out of anything here. Clearly that happens but I sure wouldn’t count on it.
I see people talking about how all Filipina are liars. Well, I don’t know anyone that has never told a lie. Except, other than myself but I’m next to perfect. haha
Disrespectful Foreigners Living In The Philippines
I had one guy scoff at me when I said the Philippines was the land of respect. That was a clear example of a know it all expat that knows virtually nothing about the Philippines. I don’t see how anyone could live here a few days without seeing how much respect is part of the culture. After I thought about it, it seems to be part of Asia in general. It even shows up in Western movies. Usually over the “loss of face.”
I have a hard time not being argumentative when someone shows up on one of my sites trashing the Philippines. Sometimes I do better than others. It depends on how vile they get with it.
It is easy to take a quick look at the Philippines, see the poverty and think I come from a superior place. I don’t know if I was guilty of that when I first got here. I’m sure I was at least a little guilty. It didn’t take long before I realized that my original country is different. We have more things and less poverty but superior? No, it isn’t.
Some things are clearly better in the USA. Yet sometimes those better things have their drawbacks as well. Some things I miss but that is because it is what I am was use too. Just because I had them before doesn’t make it better.
Things and comfort are not what life should be about. And that is where the Filipino have us beat. That is an instance when the Philippines is superior. Things and comforts wont make you happy. There are a lot of rich yet miserable Americans.
Do I mean Filipino don’t want things? Of course not but they also are content overall and happy. They have their families and friendship is revered. I myself have lamented more over lost friends than lost things.
I left a lot of things back in the states when I came here. I don’t even remember what most of those are now! Maybe someday I’ll get them shipped over on a container. Some of those things I’d like too. But I don’t need any of them.
Living In The Philippines
I recommend to the new expat that he take the time to get to understand the Philippines. You’ll never understand it the way Filipino do but I can assure you that some things one will judge harshly in the beginning will make sense to them later. Even more, some of the impression you have picked up from foreigners that live here or say they live here are grossly wrong.
As for those that leave negative comments about the Philippines here, you’re welcome to do so as long as you can do it using language that I think is acceptable. Don’t plan to go unchallenged by me. I may ignore you or I may ask you to backup what you say. There’s been a bit of an outbreak of it lately. I know that many expats living in the Philippines will pat you on the back and confirm what you say. Most of that negativity comes from a need to feel better about yourselves.
So many of these same people will return home and tell people there how smart they were to come here.
While I try not to paint a picture that coming here will cure your woes or make you happy, I do know that for me it has greatly increased my happiness.
Your money will go much further here and you can find a fantastic woman.
Just don’t expect to get her out of a bar that she works in. That happens too but more often than not, that is not where it happens at. Another problem with finding a good woman is that a lonely man will do stupid things. I know I’ve been guilty of that but it never got me into a really bad situation. It can lead you to be extorted here.
Use your head and not your heart. Okay use your heart too just don’t get so lonely you have a sign stamped on your forehead that reads, ”I’m a sucker.” There are women in every land that will take advantage of you if you do that. Now, I’m not going into all the way men mistreat women but there is plenty of that too. In fact, lying about your intentions with a Filipina is another good way to end up in serious legal trouble. Justified or not, you brought that on yourself.
I Love Living In The Philippines
For me, the Philippines is a wonderful place. Filipina and pinoy alike have treated me very well for the most part. That is because for the most part, Filipino are lovely people. They tend to overly admire us. Yes, some hate all foreigners. Most do not and will treat you better because you are a foreigner, not worse.
If you’re going to live in the Philippines, show them some respect. Most will certainly show you more respect that you deserve. And don’t make the rest of us look bad with your hateful or illegal activities. I like living here, stop doing stupid things to spoil it for the rest of us.
Don’t discount everything expats tell you. Take it in and when you hear something that conflicts with that, ask a Filipino. Be respectful when you ask. Don’t ask in a tone that has already cast judgement. I remember now that Jessie sometimes got a little defensive when I asked questions. I suppose she so use to hearing bad things. I had to explain that I’m not trying to decide which is better but to understand. I learned a lot that way. But, don’t believe everything Filipino say. If you blend the things you learn, over time you’ll gain much insight into what the Philippines is really like.
Oh and please don’t tell anyone but sometimes I forget that I don’t know it all.
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Excellent post, Rusty. Very well said. LIFE and living it is what you make of it and mostly about perception. I have said for years that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% what you do about it. I don’t know about the accuracy of the numbers there (since 87.34% of all statistics are made up…haha) but you get the point.
Thanks John, yeah after enough life happens to you, we usually learn that peace comes from within.
Most of us need something besides ourselves to be content. For me, I think it is a woman’s love. Well and an aircon.
I can give up central air and I didn’t think i would but I did. Life is good for me.
Making my 7th trip since March 08. Been to alot of different places in PH. I like Moalboal and Puerto Galera for the diving. Almost 48 and have a nice g/f whom I met in Subic first trip – with scuba club. Paid for her “caregiver” school and met the parents and had the pig roast thing on me. Don’t want to get married. Don’t want kids. Can’t see myself a daddy at 50! Plus I worry too damn much – my new york city life. Anyhow, forced out of my job last week with nice pay off, no pension. I can live on 1000/month until early social security if it’s around when I’m 62. ANYHOW……Leaving April 4 for a month visit. Will be staying the Kiwi Lodge a few nights before I return home. My plan is to relocate to Florida when my condo sells – I have my 70 y/o Mom with me. When “we” are settled in florida I will return for an extended “living” stay. Any advice, info, direction, guidence,ect. appreciated. Matt
Yes, I have a suggestion, share your new found windfall with me. LOL
Eeek at being a daddy to another. They are cool but no. Uh uh, don’t think so. I resolved that issue 15 years ago or so….
Question is a bit broad.
Lots of information here. Or try narrowing it down a bit. My ya ya is from Moalboal. I have a hard time saying that word still. Though it has been a while since I’ve had to say it and make the Filipina giggle at me. haha
Sounds like a nice area. I’m at the other end of the island.
Thanks for stopping by and posting!!!
You’re mad at me for doing what you say to you and commenting about it. I have a year in the Ph. I said I know when the girls go out to hook and you ask me if I’m in Angele City. No, I’m near you. Do I see robbery? yes. Do I know better than pulling my wallet out to buy something on the street, yes! Did my wife and I take off all jewely during Santo Denino’s celebration in Cebu in Jan. did I get my pockets razored in the crowd? YES !
Why don’t you get out and rub shoulders with the Pinoy, come on down from Mount Olympus Rusty, drink a beer (Red Horse) share some Tanduay, smile at the sweet thing flashing her panties or squeezing by you and rub her hipthats srpay painted blue denim on you.
Show some respect you say. You earn respect it’s not awarded. Pinoy are smart enough to know that. That’s where this blog goes wrong. Martin Luther King described prejudice as wrong but he added,there is a most insidious kind. The poetically correct patronage in public (bloggosphere) that talks about a mature culture like it is above reproach when everyone knows its just like any other culture world wide. There is the good, the bad and the ugly, Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, black, brown, yellow, white and those inbetween.
So, you think this post is about you? Don’t flatter yourself.
No time to drink, sitting on a mountain top playing god takes up all my time.
I really don’t like public moderation. Use your name if you’re going to post again and be sure you’re using a valid email address. If you’re not, I’m going to send everything else to spam.
H you clearly have issues with Rusty so your comments and negative tone are not going to be received well here. But I do LIKE seeing opposing views, escpecially when I have so much to learn. I do think there is a valid point in that the activities that you do VS what Rusty does can definitely lead him to see things differently than you do and open you up to the likelyhood of worse experiences. So H when you say that your pockets were razored do you mean picked clean or slashed with an actual razor????
Bruce he means cut.
Colon Street in Cebu is infamous for this as is the midtown area to a lessor extent.
I know someone that had his watch band slashed. But he was so sweaty that it adhered to his body. haha He got lucky, they cut it and wait for it to fall. He never knew it happened till he noticed the band cut.
I read of one account where a guy claimed that two accosted him in a crowd one with a knife to his throat while the other emptied his pockets. He said it was over in seconds. Scary stuff!
Colon street is a great place to buy electronics. I have been there and while there I was keenly alert and a little fearful. I’ve read from other expats that they tend to prey upon newbies. “That they can spot a newbie in a moments notice.” Maybe that’s true, I don’t know. It isn’t like a newbie has a sign flashing on his forehead. But I’ve seen expats advise people not to go there without a more experienced expat.
There may be some truth to it. I’ve had people walk up to me and try ask for money when Jessie had walked away. But as soon as she returns, they leave. That happened quite a bit in my early days here.
My problem with H and G is their attacking nature. And I don’t like the words they use. This site has a tone. Pi At Night has a different tone. (It is a forum geared for expats that tend to like girlie bars. I visit there from time to time and learn from a different type of expat but most of those are not expat. H & G are not expats either. They don’t live in a foreign country. Visiting is very different from living in a place. They started out with things like “Oh come on Rusty” and that’s just inflammatory. They/he speaks as if he is an expert and he clearly is not.
This site is rated PG leaning toward G. I really wish they’d come back every day, challenge me. I like being challenged as it makes me think.
But if I want to someone to listen to me, I don’t start out by attacking and insulting them. I was amazed that he thought this article was about him. “You’re so vain you probably think this …” A song from the 70′s.
So in a word, challenge me, just don’t attack me. Worse, don’t attack someone else. Not talking to you Bruce.
I’ve seen a guy come here and stay in constant trouble of some kind or another. Thing is, he was often in trouble back in his home country too.
I’ve lived here constantly for three years. I wish I had been able to travel the whole country the way he had. I’ve been to quite a few places but never slept in a church on Southern Mindanao, nor would I. Too dangerous. He did. I’ve had zero problems.
Now I did meet a girl online before I came to the Philippines. I quickly became skeptical of this girl as she asked me for a fiancee visa soon after we met. She was not at all happy with me when she realized that I was interested in someone else. I live in a small city in the Philippines and some how I ended up in the same place. She caused me some minor grief. I would have liked to have been friends. I guess she’s pretty angry with me still. The worst she did was follow me around a bit and send text messages to my friends pretending to be me.
I’ve had some landlord problems, one that was just outrageous and I really should move because of it. I wrote an article about it.
I should go write an article now. Feeling a bit sick, just sent the ya ya out for antibiotics. What to write about…..
I would love opposing views. I’d rather have those than people that only agree with me. I don’t think attack post from visitors encourage others to post. One of my flaws is that I’m argumentative. Yes, I admit it, I have a flaw.
shhwwww don’t let that get to the mountain top. LOL
Of course, you were guilty Rusty! You were what you call, know it all! You even declared that part of our Filipino Christmas tradition is we can knock on people’s homes and can demand the appropriate amount for our Christmas gift. Of course, you did not phrase it exactly that way but you used the word “tradition” which is my main quarrel anyway.
Roy, lol funny. I wrote that two years ago and since I have now seen Filipino show up at the door looking for their Christmas on Christmas day, I’ll stand by my words.
Sometimes they don’t wait for Christmas. I want to give them a little something when they do that out of the blue. But they tend to come back too often so I had to stop.
As I’ve told you so many times, traditions in the Philippines are often very regional.
I know another Filipino that considers it a tradition. But she’s not from Makati. She was worried how I would react to it. It is not as common in Bogo as it must be in Tacloban though.
Some do it every year, that sounds pretty traditional to me.
Make that three Christmas but I was pretty sick this last one and slept right through it.
Rusty,
I hope you would find wikipedia acceptable enough as a source of information what “Tradition” is.
“A tradition is a ritual, belief or object passed down within a society, still maintained in the present, with origins in the past.[1][2] Common examples include holidays or impractical but socially meaningful clothes (like lawyer wigs or military officer spurs), but the idea has also been applied to social norms such as greetings. Traditions can persist and evolve for thousands of years—the word “tradition” itself derives from the Latin tradere or traderer literally meaning to transmit, to hand over, to give for safekeeping—and new traditions continue to appear today. XXX
The concept of tradition, as the notion of holding on to a previous time, is also found in political and philosophical discourse. XXXA number of factors can exacerbate the loss of tradition, including industrialization, globalization, and the assimilation or marginalization of specific cultural groups. In response to this, tradition-preservation attempts have now been started in many countries around the world, focusing on aspects such as traditional languages. Tradition is usually contrasted with the goal of modernity and should be differentiated from customs, conventions, laws, norms, routines, rules and similar concepts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition
As I am not a native speaker of english, Rusty, I try not to use words lightly. I am careful in using its full import. As I have pointed out to you many times, I do not doubt for a second that it does not happen. What I have a quarrel about is you have decreed that it is a Filipino Christmas tradition. The fact that you back tracked and declared it as a regional Filipino Christmas tradition does not help. Anybody who lives in your area who proudly claims “oh that is just part of our Christmas tradition” is a person you should not associate yourself with. That person is someone who stamps approval to mendicancy as a way of life.
Wow Roy, that’s a whole lot of what the heck did they say?
I’ll go with Websters definition as it is a scholarly source and should suffice and I can actually understand it:
Definition of TRADITION
1
a : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom)
b : a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable
2
: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3
: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4
: characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition
First, you did drastically restate what I said and I found it humorous, others really want know what I said. If anyone thinks this tradition is someone demeaning, I am not the person that thinks that and I in no way ever implied that in any way.
When I was living in the USA, I asked if kids in the Philippines still go to door to door for candy on Halloween. She told me, not really. She wasn't familiar with that. But she said they do that on Christmas. Then when I moved here she told me that people will come buy on Christmas and the adults will want money.
Just doing the slightest bit of research on this tradition, I found that it stems from the times when farmers worked in the mountains and came into the city during Christmas to do this.. That this has been handed down from generation to generation. That is a tradition. Now if it doesn't happen where you are then it isn't a tradition there.
One of the first things I ever wrote on Bob's site was an article about how regional customs the Philippines are. I have said that over and over. If I didn't repeat myself in that article, it doesn't really matter. When people write about traditions that doesn't mean every person follows that tradition.
I find this tradition charming. It is certainly not as prevailing in Bogo City as it is in Tacloban. i don't recall if I thought it was common all over the Philippines when I wrote that article two, maybe three years ago. I might have. I don't remember what you said then I don't remember what I said then.
I'm a little amazed that you've brought it up again. But there is certainly a tradition of going door to door on Christmas in many parts of the Philippines. I have no idea how much it happens except in Bogo and by word of mouth in Tacloban. Well, unless you think Jessie just made it up.
If you want to have another go at it, be my guest.
When I used the word tradition, I actually started to look it up because I was pretty sure that would be your method point of counter attack, sorry, i can't think of a better word than attack. Counter point but I just used that word.
I THINK I did ask Bob if had seen this in Davao and I THINK he said no other than the carolers which do expect a donation. Or do you not know anything about that tradition either? Whether they are singing or just asking without singing they are still going door to door asking for money. And there are a lot of Filipino doing that on Christmas day. If you want to argue the term a lot, then be my guest. It is an easy argument. What is a lot? I don't know. More than do it in the USA. Do the carolers in the USA ask for donations? I never saw it but I guess it happens there too. Probably for some charitable organization. Americans would be unlikely to give anything to a person they didn't know. Well, most of them. Some do. Some give to the beggars in the USA. Just for the record, I never talk about what I give. Though I rarely talk about what I don't give.
Just for the record, I'm glad you're here.
PS, I never decreed anything. My mountain top isn’t quite that authoritative. I’m only a wanna be god.
I still accept your “scholarly source” and more liberal, all-encompassing definition of tradition.
Since I remember what you said, and I remember what I said, may I sum up and restate your observations and findings about Christmas ‘there’, you say that:
1. During Christmas, “adults will want money”;
==What humans will not want for money during this holiday? While we can want it for all we can, it doesn’t mean we can get it. Is it a tradition to want for money? Gift-giving could be a tradition to a certain family, certainly not all. The point is no one should be under duress to give money because hey, it’s a tradition!
2. People from the mountains (farmers you pointed out who work in the mountains) come to the city and ask for money (you pointed this out in previous post); These farmers if they receive an amount of money which they don’t like can demand for more (?!) as you pointed out;
==That sounds extortion to me which should not be a tradition, & I don’t care where it is. It is even a felony and that means, it’s territorially applied to the whole of the Phil. But then, they are not enforced, you point out. Because people-I won’t say who-do not substantiate their claims. Besides, farmers, though usually poor are proud people. They are not given to mendicancy. And worse, they are not ingrates who instead of saying “thank you” would say “MORE!”
Now I am not going to split hairs over the act of caroling during Christmas. I look at it as an act of caroling and you look at it as going house to house asking for a donation. If that’s how you look at it, borrowing your expression, be my guest. Just a tip to you, if at some point you get frustrated w/ these extortionists, not carolers, you can just say “sorry, no more money (even if that’s not true)” or just say “Patawad” in tagalog or whatever in the vernacular. If they get upset, call the cops.
Final point, “tradition” has an emotional feel to it. They are things we hold on to
inspite of all these modernity or present concerns that are facing us. I realize I cannot impose to you what “tradition” should be like. I just find it offensive that you describe part of Filipino tradition, or regional christmas tradition as anything resembling to extortion. Just because you want to be a god, that does not give you the imprimatur to comment on the “traditions” of Filipinos (or some Filipinos) during Christmas which they want to see practiced year after year.
If you’re offended, then come sit on my porch on Christmas and see for yourself. They do come and I learned of this from Filipina. Don’t know what else to tell you. It happens, I wont say it doesn’t happen. I don’t see anything offensive about it.
Roy I Think your feelings about the word tradition are misguided. A family can have a tradition of going to Jolly Bees for xmas dinner every year but that does not mean that every family does or that all the members attend every year. And I THINK the farmer origns of the story date back to a long time ago as the origin. Even when people do ask for $ on xmas I don’t think they are demanding enough to be referred to as extortionists. I do have a few filipino friends here in the states and it does seem to me that there is a definite cultural divide as to wanting, asking and reciving gifts that can easily be seen as pushy and over the line by american standards. Again these are just my personal experiences from the few that I know, So I would have to actully be over there and experice it more to have a accurate portayal.
Now see folks, Roy almost always disagrees with me but I love to have him visit.
Roy, I was editing this article and realized that you said I was guilty of feeling superior because of that story. That is ridiculous.
I did not feel superior because of that. You’re the ONLY one that put some negative connotations on this practice. I never did. It was you that had a problem with the behavior not me!
And while I’m at it. If every you read Jessie’s comment here and still think this is not a tradition in the Philippines, you just don’t want to accept the facts.
I had left this topic but when I realized you were putting words in my mouth, that I have to address.
Pls refresh my memory when I said that, why I said that. That I said youw ere guilty of feeling superior! Duh! You can copy paste what I wrote.
ButI will no longer comment on what you decree that this occasion+ these series of acts performed=Filipino Christmas Tradition.
You are absolutely right from the very beginning. Sorry, my mistake.
Hi! what a lot off hot words about such a thing as singing carols at your gate or whatever, It happens all over the world, some sing for charites some sing to get a few pennies extra at chrismas. Rusty let live and let live, It seems to me you like to wind people up. and do act like you are superior to others. Why? its hard to understand by your comments.
Terry
Rusty:
Right on brother. You’re happy there you want to stay there so who has the right to critize whether you’re on Mount Olympus or Mount Fuji? Bottom line is you’re HAPPY. In my years of living in Asia I too saw how miserable so many so called “expats” were. I always thought: If they’re so unhappy there and all they can find are faults why don’t they just go HOME! The worst ones are the “well back home we do it this way”, man if you want to do it the way you do it back home you should of stayed home!
I really love the ones that after 1 year of living in Asia they’re a walking Wikipedia – the all knowing all experienced expat with an outlook on telling you all about the country and its culture and idiosyncrasies. Ha Ha Watch out for these characters paying attention to their “expert” advise will surely get you in trouble.
As for me I can’t wait to retire and move back to Asia. Hopefully in 1-3 years. It might not be the Philippines but it sure will be one of the many that I had a chance to visit when I lived there. The good ol USA is just not for me anymore, I like the way people in Asia show respect – to their elders their families and their neighbors. It isn’t perfect but it sure beats how people treat each other here.
Nuf said, I will say that your new site does look a little more commercial than what you had up before.
Ouch, this mountain peak is a bit pointed… LOL You know, I poked a lot of fun at myself in this article. I have many flaws but being better or higher than someone else is just so not me. So it was very easy to let that one roll off and even have some fun with it.
Once a guy looked at a picture of me where I was enjoying a huge cigar and said I had a Rambo attitude. I think it was in an article where I was joking about being an international playboy, I’m not sure. My reply? “First blood.” LOL I need to do that more often when attacked, just laugh it off.
Perhaps, someone that needs to attack me for not agreeing with is vies has much more of a god complex than I do. That is so not me.
If money was no object, I’d like nothing more to marry Jessie and take her and the kids back to the USA. I’m likely live in a rural area if I could pick and choose.
I have a good pension, it isn’t SSN. I got it based on having lupus. So I can have a decent life here on that. If I want to really have fun, I need to earn a little extra.
But the same income in the USA, it could be done but it would be impossible for me to do everything I would have to do to get Jessie and her family there, assuming I could get them over their fear.
I came to the Philippines for the lower cost of living. Jessie made it very nice for me here.
If I didn’t have Jessie, that it would be easy to date beautiful women is a plus but I have her.
More commercial huh? Well, I don’t want it too look spammy but I do need to sell that book so I don’t run out of money every month.
What i had up before, is better if you’re a web developer. I’m not. I know a little bit about CSS and HTML and PHP but not nearly enough to make the sight look more colorful. I really like the layout of the other one better.
I plan to get back to that somewhat. But to do that, I have to pay for the $200 version of this theme. I’m using the free version right now.
I still have more changes to make with how some things are displayed.
Great reading from both sides of the “fences” Rusty.Have over 42 years of “wandering” South East Asia,love the Phils immensely,am still learning though and that is “half the fun”.
I’m still learning to, it will never stop.
Those first few months though, wow. My few of the world was the USA and Canada. The “shock” value has worn off and I think it is a wonderful country with wonderful people.
Since Roy is giving me a hard time over my story from two years ago about something that some Filipino do on Christmas, I was looking for more on the subject. I could only find references to caroling but I also found this video.
I want to TRY to make one. I hope I can put the video here, if not then I’ll have to write a story about it.
Actually, I think I’ll do a story on Christmas traditions in the Philippines, kind of an odd time of the year for that but still something interesting. Christmas is only a few months away anyway. It starts in full swing in Sept.
Yikes, Rusty, in my March 3, 2011 2nd comment here I wrote and I quote:
As I have pointed out to you many times, I do not doubt for a second that it does not happen.
Who said it does not happen as you again pointed out?
I thought I was clear to you that I do not dispute your observation that they do happen. I totally agreed with you that they happen. But since this is hard for you to remember that I agreed with you that they DO happen, then certainly we cannot agree on other matters. I already stipulated to you that yes they happen and here you are inviting me to your porch to see for myself that they happen.
Gee, my english must be horrible. You are absolutely right–you have nothing else to say.
I don’t know what you want, it happens. Jessie wanted to make sure we had enough coins on hand because she expected it to happen.
If you’re offended, then you are. I was saying what I had learned about the Philippines.
What do you want me to do?
Hehe I am reading the back and forth between the 2 of you and it seems pretty clear to me that neither one of you understand each other. It’s really funny and entertaining. I think Roy’s over all point is he beleaves it happens but does not like the generalization of it as a tradition as it lumps all filipinos into a possible negative interpitation. And Rusty’s point is that many in his area do it year after year so itis a tradition, BUT he does not see it as negative or offensive in the least. Please feel free to call me out if I butt in to much or get things wrong.
It is not common in my area but it happens, I don’t see it as offense at all.
Roy see’s it as offense and feels I have slighted Filipino because I call it a tradition. When it has been passing down in some areas from generation too generation. Though it is not as widespread as I once thought it was.
I think Roy being offended is misguided. I understood him. I think he directs his offense at me when he really has a problem with the actions of the people that do it.
And he’s brought up something that we hashed out two years ago. I think Roy has decided he does not like me because of that. If I’m correct, then I’m disappointed because I do like him.
Jessie has made it clear that it happens and it happens in large numbers in Tacloban. It happens every year and it has been happening since she was a little girl and I THINK she went door to to as a child. Like Halloween as a child. Now new children do it and still some adults.
Rusty, the reason that I am not responding anymore to this it’s because clearly there will be no understanding between the two of us on this point. Every time you illustrate another “tradition” as you say practiced by Jesse, you introduce NEW facts to what we argue about. When what you could have done is squarely focused your argument on the very same example that I cited from you. Jesse said she did that as a child but did she pester people from giving her more and if she did-not that I imply that she is capable of doing that-did she do because she thinks it’s all part of the tradition? The good news is you will never see the thin line between the distinctions I make, Rusty so this is really MOOT.
If you go on telling people that “Hey come Christmas time, farmers (take note: farmers) from the mountains would go down & demand money. They may not even have to sing Christmas song, they will just tap your gate. If you give them just loose coins, they will get upset so prepare for bills. After all, that’s part of Filipino or even what YOU call “regional Christmas tradition.”
I bet your reply to this is: Roy, Jesse tells me as a child, she used to go door to door…
Doing what? What I just described, the definition of extortion?
It’s frustrating to argue w/ people who cannot see simple, glaring differences. What’s worse, they change the issue altogether. For example, we were arguing about the color. I say it’s pink, you say it’s blue. I say pink bec it is a combination red & white. You say blue bec it’s oblong.
I was harping about the extortion side of “Christmasing” bec that’s what you said 2 years ago. No, you did not say “extortion”, that was my word, not that it’s not part of your vocabulary. But I digress. Anyway, while I was harping about “extortion” element, here you were insisting that people really go around christmasing expecting money just like your Jesse when she was a kid.
Like I have a quarrel w/ that.
That’s so frustrating.
I also did that as a child Rusty. & like your Jesse, I expected money after I sing “silent night”. But did I berate the house owner for giving me few coins? & was the house owner compelled to give more owing to my unhappiness over what they gave? I did not.
Because that was not part my tradition and any self-respecting Filipinos for that matter.
Roy, as I have said before, I hoe you continue to return and challenge me all you like. Even if I don’t agree with you, it makes me think. Keeps me on my toes.
Of course, I do not like extortion during Christmas to be called by Rusty as part of Filipino Christmas tradition OR even a regional thing as he said. I am THE Filipino and I should have THE say what is part of our Christmas tradition! It is certainly not part of our Christmas tradition to extort money bec hey it’s Christmas. The fact that people are aggressive during this season does not stamp the act that it is a tradition.
BTW, since you are reading this, I hope you did not miss the fact that I was emphatic in using Rusty’s concept of Christmas tradition. It’s not just caroling around the neighborhood. It’s about adult men presumably farmers from the mountains who demand money and can demand for more if they receive few coins. House owners are compelled to shell out more. Bec hello, it’s Filipino Christmas. And hello again, it happens every year so this is a tradition.
What a genius.
My concept of tradition is a little misguided? Or you are the one who is misguided here. I have a big problem when such and such an act is described as Filipino Christmas Tradition. Take note of the qualifying word: FILIPINO. I don’t care if a family goes to Jollibee every year during Christmas bec that is their FAMILY tradition.
My example of the family going to Jolee Bees for xmas was to justify a tradition as recuring event that need not be applied to all peoples unilaterally. If the going house ti house tradition by farmers is how it got started then that is not necisarily the people who do it now nor do they have the same need or intent. To me it seems logical that many filipino would do the house to house “begging” or caroloing as many have a need and the homeowner may be able to fill it. And indoing so it is a tradition. As to the individuals who get upset over reciving nothing or little it is hard not to empathize with their suffering and see why they could be easily angered over this. Their are always those that feel entiled to somthing that they did not earn or do not deserve so those few people can give it a much worse appearance than it deserves. But I think it rather extreem to call them Extortionists.
You crack me up Rusty. You are on the Philippines but not in the Philippines. It must be hazy up their on Mount Olympus, your views are patronizing of Pinoy, quit it. I have spent now, one straight solid year in the Ph and prior to that weeks and months at a time in different parts of the Republic.
I have also read that “Specificity is often used to take control of a conversation to stop or redirect that conversation”. It is used to direct attention to one word in a communication and put one on the defensive. Communications can be both a strategic maneuvering for a covert goal and and/or an overt action. Hmmmmmmmmm on to the “Bigger Picture” as they say.
The key word for the Ph. is the term Republic of the Philippines; this is made up of 7,107 separate islands. There are hundreds of spoken dialects in the thousands of regions and thousands of traditions, habits, and behaviors unique to each island. The Philippines is not only about Angeles City, Manila, Cebu or Davao City but people live in those places also.
The Pinoy are not aliens from the planet Mars, they are people Rusty, like you and me and like our neighbors in America. No matter where I read in this blogosphere or others, like Bob’s, there is ALWAYS this constant “please be respectful of these people” prater. It reeks of COLONIALISM and racial prejudices. The worst kind of prejudice that Martin Luther could not explain to us whites.
Here it is so pay attention: An [ADMIN EDIT] is an [ADMIN EDIT], be them Philippino, American or Japanese, so call them an [ADMIN EDIT] and quit deferring to their nationality for not being honest with them. We are all Gods children and his only son was crucified for trying to get people to understand “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. That IS THE BASES FOR RESPECT.
By the way Roy, twice a neighbor came to our house this year and asked for Christmas. My Filipina wife told her that if she hadn’t mistreated her kids so much they wouldn’t have run away and would have given her her Christmas and get outa here.
My wife caroled at Christmas for candy, she still talks about it, she loved it. I caroled at Christmas to hang out with pretty girls when I was a kid and pinched their butts when they were singing to get them to scream, I enjoyed it.
Well, you wrote better this time G and H.
You wrote quite well actually. However, you don’t seem to understand something. When I say “The Philippines is the land of respect” I mean that the people are very respectful. You ever see a Filipino getting loud and complaining in a place of business? I never have but I’m sure it does happen every blue moon. Some how you get that mixed up with someone deserving respect.
Even when a person doesn’t deserve respect one can still behave in a civil not attacking way. Well, some of us can.
http://cebuexperience.com/administrative/comment-policy/
Being an American expat living in the Philippines close to two years, Rusty, I completely agree with you when you state “The Philippines is a land of respect.” I see respect shown on a daily basis. Do you know I have two teen-aged relatives that live with my Filipina wife and I that actually LISTEN to what their uncle says and do daily chores without complaining? I have, also, in my numerous trips to SM City never seen any Filipinos getting loud and complaining. The respect that I see Filipinos accord each other and an old kano geezer like me is remarkable.
Nice observation Dave. It goes w/o saying that we have the highest contempt to teenagers who are loud in public like buses/trains. Whenever I have friends from the Phil visit me here in the states, and I take them on public transportation, I always observe my friend’s reaction whenever they see loud teenagers on the train. They never fail to notice the behavior of those kids. The funny thing is people like them would love to pepper their sentences with “You disrespected me; that was very rude of you.”
Roy, I don’t get these foreigners that think they are expats that come to the Philippines and try to tell me Filipino are rude.
That’s freaking insane. Are some Filipino rude? Of course. In the USA, it would be more of the question of “Are some American’s polite.” Of course. haha
As far as I know, I’m the first one to call the Philippines “The Land of Respect.” Even in a dispute, most Filipino are polite about it. Not that I’ve never seen a dispute escalate into confrontation. But that is are.
A large part of the population greats older people with Mano Po to show respect. I even do it when I remember too.
I just don’t see how someone could get off the bus or plane for three days and not come to understand this. Is AC that different. I know, I need to run a fact finding mission to AC.
From my reading around the web though, if you show the girls that work in the bikini bars a lack of respect, most of them will find another customer.
Ok Jay, in my 2nd comment here dated March 03, I pointed out basically to Rusty that acts described by him DO actually happen. I cannot emphatic enough on this. I admit and therefor stipulate w/ him and you as well and to everyone here that yes, there are people knocking on doors during Christmas time basically asking for money. Heck, you don’t even have to wait for Christmas for this. So are we good on this?
What I DO argue about is this.
Does the act of knocking on doors as described by Rusty and you as well–which include perhaps a Christmas tune or not even, and then demand money and not just loose coins but some amount they deem appropriate, otherwise they berate the house owners for being cheap–constitute FILIPINO CHRISTMAS TRADITION? Is it a regional thing then? House owners are at the mercy of people “christmasing” all in the name of tradition?
And if I could illustrate further my point.
Group of kids burst into singing “Joy to the World” infront of your house. Depending on your mood, you might give or not give them loose change or maybe P50, what the heck. Whatever it is, kids just abide by what you decide to do-to give or not to give.
Group of people, perhaps adult, knock on doors asking for “donation” during Christmas. If they are not happy w/ what you give, they can ask for more. You’d be forced to give more bec your smart girlfriend reminds you that “hey its the Christmas Tradition HERE”.
In the first instance, the kids depend on the liberality of the house owners while in the second instance, the people have a clear sense of entitlement as if those donations are due and demandable because they know that the house owners are convinced that it’s a tradition in the Philippines and they must abide by it, as their smart girlfriends tell them.
That is part o
I THINK he was trying to agree with you. He came to support his friend that thinks that God declared women as evil.
I grew up at a place where going door to door during Christmas where children gets candies and adults gets cash became a tradition. Some of these people comes from other towns. You’ll loose count on how many shows up at your door.
Rusty based his story on my experience and my town. When we get to a new place, i was kinda expecting it to be the same, but to my big surprise, it was different and quiet. Not my usual boisterous Christmas morning.
If people do somthing on a regular basis like ever xmas fore example then it is a tradition. And if it is inPI then it IS a filipino tradition by default qhether is the majority of a population or not. The END.
G. H. And Jay, don’t now if you’re all the same three people or just know each other.
I’m happy to have all three of you posting here but some things are required. A name, a valid email address and not curse words. Find other words.
You’re free to challenge anything I say. But if you can’t do it with those three guidelines then you can go some place else.
I hope I don’t have to resort to any more public moderation, it is unlikely I will need to because I’ve already said what I need to say. This is the second time I’ve said it. It has been ignored. I wont say it again.
I can’t remember which of you three actually spoke of being in the Philippines for a year (though it isn’t the same thing as actually living here) why do you keep coming back if you think the place is so awful?
Rusty, you are starting to come across that you are “tailor making” your Posts to help sell your Online Book! You seem to think that if “someone” tells you of an incident that has happened to them, then your perception of their “so called” negativity is that it must make them feel better about themselves? This is UTTER NONSENSE! You are also coming across in your Posts, that because you have lived in Bogo City for three years or so that you are “an expert” or in your own words “a know it all expat”? Of course You obviously mean well. You want to “help” others to enjoy the Phils! However your own views about “corruption” are TOTALLY Wrong! Corruption in Asia and other nearby country’s is RAMPANT. It has NEVER been Worse! Though it is not at All Levels in the “provinces”— YET!
You once asked me if i was a Filipina, and if so then you would then listen to me!!! OPEN your Eyes, because it is so EVIDENT Everywhere!
Do not class me as “one of your know it all expats”!I reckon with 42years of Wandering throughout most Asian countries and with 24 years EXPERIENCE of purchasing products for my Business in Australia then perhaps i might have a “good” idea of “what does go on”. I think that i told you i was still learning and that was “half the fun”.I enjoy reading your posts and replies. I consider myself a “kind of expat” having lived in Solsogon in Samar for over a year,Manila for many periods of 3-4 months and places in Leyte and Mindoro for similar periods. The phils is a Beautiful place with Wonderful people, enjoy it with an “open mind”, get out and about,but there are other places in Asia that are the Equal of the Phils.
I have had many Memorable Experiences in all of them. With LOT’s more to
happen in the Future? My Filipino girlfriend and myself plan a “product buying” adventure to Cambodia in December. I have nearly “forgotten’what Cambodia looks like? Hope i can “draw out” more Expat comments on your site Rusty and get you “fired-up”? Lol!
First, I never asked if you were a Filipina. I asked if you were Filipino.
Second, I didn’t say I didn’t listen to you. I very much listened to you. Quite frankly you didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know and you’re even more cautious than I am. That’s fine, be more cautious than I am. But if you were a Filipino then then your comment would have been a threat and concerned me a great deal.
Third, you’re not an expat so you can’t possibly be a know it all expat.
Fourth I’m not an expert in business in the Philippines. I am not an expert on Angeles City because I’ve never been there. I am an expert on living in the Philippines.
Corruption is not as much of a factor as some people say it is. If it was, people could buy themselves out of trouble. Sometimes, they very well can. Especially if they are connected. I’ve seen too many people say you can buy yourself out of any trouble here and that is just not true. Are their illegal payments, are gifts expected in business, yes they are in many times.
I rarely make a post to sell my eBook, I have, but it is rare thing. The last five post on this blog have not been remotely about my eBook. I just went back to look.
1. Another Brownout In Bogo
2. Humidity In The Philippines
3. I’m Cold And I Live In The Philippines
4. Being Irritable In The Philippines Is Illegal
5. When Dengue Strikes Home
And I’ll keep going
6. Radiation Threat In The Philippines
Since I dared to ask if you were Filipino and you took it the wrong way, you’ve been in attack mode. You took it the wrong way. You might want to ask yourself why.
You’re coming across as very jealous. In your last post, you accused me of fraud for raising the price of my eBook. You have ZERO knowledge of what cost I have and yes, I do have cost. Second, I doubt you have any knowledge of how to reach your target audience on a web.
I’m not going to let someone come on this site and trash the Philippines, there are plenty of places where that is welcome. I present a very balanced pros and cons of the Philippines. But you’re idea of fraud told me a lot about what you think corruption is.
I have lived in the philippines for over ten years. Married to a philippina. I ask you what do you mean by trash the philipnes. I have seen first hand how some foreners have lost every thing to greedy and totaly mercenary wifes and girlfriends I have seen corruption at its worst here . Now this is not trashing as you call it but true facts. I live here because I Like it here. The friendly people. the way off life here . But I do have a right to complain about some things that are wronge here . that is as I said , not trashing the philippines.If I felt that some one was trashing something unjustly or unfairly I to would defend the philippines or whoever. I don’t think you have a balanced oppinion, its too one sided.
Terry